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	<title>Comments on: Heaven Misplaced: Christ&#8217;s Kingdom on Earth by Douglas Wilson</title>
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	<description>Similar to the constable in charge of the Watch of Messina, I try to be sincere and try take writing seriously but fear I will use the wrong words to convey my thoughts and that my desire to speak eloquently will become an occasion for parody.</description>
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		<title>By: Pat</title>
		<link>http://www.dogberrypatch.com/archives/heaven-misplaced-christs-kingdom-on-earth-by-douglas-wilson/#comment-17271</link>
		<dc:creator>Pat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 13:43:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;p&gt;Interesting.  So would postmillennialists agree that Jesus will return after a great multitude of people (&quot;like the sands of the seashore&quot;) from around the world have come to attack the church?&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting.  So would postmillennialists agree that Jesus will return after a great multitude of people (&#8220;like the sands of the seashore&#8221;) from around the world have come to attack the church?</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: YeOleImposter</title>
		<link>http://www.dogberrypatch.com/archives/heaven-misplaced-christs-kingdom-on-earth-by-douglas-wilson/#comment-17269</link>
		<dc:creator>YeOleImposter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 18:49:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dogberrypatch.com/archives/heaven-misplaced-christs-kingdom-on-earth-by-douglas-wilson/#comment-17269</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Pat, in searching to answer your question I came accross Dr. Greg Bahnsen&#039;s article, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cmfnow.com/articles/pt138.htm&quot;&gt;Objections to Postmillinnialism Answered (Part 2)&lt;/a&gt;, in which he discusses the success of Christ&#039;s kingdom in history and answers some questions about it.  It is interesting to note that the &#039;final apostasy&#039; you mention is not denied but actually makes more sense for PostMills than for PreMills.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;We Believe&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;As we saw in our &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cmfnow.com/articles/pt136.htm&quot;&gt;last study&lt;/a&gt;, postmillennalists believe that Jesus established the kingdom of God on earth during His first advent. &quot;God has highly exalted Him to His right hand to be a Prince and Savior that He might give repentance and forgiveness of sins&quot; (Acts 5:31). He is now &quot;the only Potentate, the King of kings and the Lord of lords&quot; (1 Timothy 6:13). He must reign until all opposition is defeated, and then He will deliver up the kingdom to the Father - at His second coming, which is &quot;the end&quot; of history (1 Corinthians 15:24-25).&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Evangelical postmillennialists hold that it will be the preaching of the gospel and the powerful work of the Holy Spirit (in regenerating and sanctifying sinners) that produces the visible success of Christ&#039;s kingdom in history. They also believe that toward the end of history there will be a final apostasy - a falling away from enjoying the blessed condition of success for the Great Commission. Satan, whose deceptive activity had previously been restricted (or &quot;bound&quot;), will be loosed again for a brief period in order to deceive the nations and make the them rebel against the Lord (Revelation 20:7.9) - at which point Christ will return from heaven in flaming fire and eternal judgment (vv. 9-15; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10).&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Postmillennialists believe, then, in the glorious, personal return of Jesus Christ at the end of history to raise the dead, judge the world, consummate the kingdom, and bring in the eternal state of the new creation (Revelation 20-22).&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Examination&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Question:&lt;/strong&gt; But how can postmillennialists believe that there is going to be a final apostasy, given the powerful working of the kingdom during the period between the two advents? Obviously the Bible teaches that Christ will return to a rebellious world in need of judgment. So how can postmillennialism be true?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Answer:&lt;/strong&gt; Well, it may be difficult for the critic to understand why or how there will be falling away from the blessed conditions of a pervasively converted world, but that intellectual or emotional difficulty does not entail - much less substantiate - that postmillennialists actually deny such a final apostasy. (Many things in the Bible are believed, after all, even though not fully understood.)&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;In fact, only postmillennialism can make sense out of the claim that there will be a final apostasy. On the pessimistic outlook of amillennialism and premillennialism, there will be no visible or widespread advance for the church - no noteworthy success for the gospel in the world - from which to &quot;fall&quot; away. The wickedness of the end of human history is simply a continuation of the downward trend throughout history.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Postmillennialism does not hold that each and every person on earth will be saved at some time in the future. There will always be tares in the wheat field of Christ&#039;s kingdom, right up until the time of the harvest - the final judgment (Matthew 13:24-30, 36-43). So Charles Hodge wrote that it should not be inferred from the Biblical promise of widespread Gentile and Jewish conversion that &quot;either all the heathen or all the Jews are to become true Christians. In many cases the conversion may be merely nominal. There will probably enough remain unchanged in heart to be the germ of that persecuting power which shall bring about those days of tribulation which the Bible seems to teach are to immediately precede the coming of the Lord&quot; (Systematic Theology, vol. 3. p.812).&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Source:&lt;/strong&gt; Objections to Postmillinnialism Answered &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cmfnow.com/articles/pt136.htm&quot;&gt;Part 1&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cmfnow.com/articles/pt138.htm&quot;&gt;Part 2&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pat, in searching to answer your question I came accross Dr. Greg Bahnsen&#8217;s article, <a href="http://www.cmfnow.com/articles/pt138.htm">Objections to Postmillinnialism Answered (Part 2)</a>, in which he discusses the success of Christ&#8217;s kingdom in history and answers some questions about it.  It is interesting to note that the &#8216;final apostasy&#8217; you mention is not denied but actually makes more sense for PostMills than for PreMills.</p>

<p><strong>We Believe</strong></p>

<p>As we saw in our <a href="http://www.cmfnow.com/articles/pt136.htm">last study</a>, postmillennalists believe that Jesus established the kingdom of God on earth during His first advent. &#8220;God has highly exalted Him to His right hand to be a Prince and Savior that He might give repentance and forgiveness of sins&#8221; (Acts 5:31). He is now &#8220;the only Potentate, the King of kings and the Lord of lords&#8221; (1 Timothy 6:13). He must reign until all opposition is defeated, and then He will deliver up the kingdom to the Father &#8211; at His second coming, which is &#8220;the end&#8221; of history (1 Corinthians 15:24-25).</p>

<p>Evangelical postmillennialists hold that it will be the preaching of the gospel and the powerful work of the Holy Spirit (in regenerating and sanctifying sinners) that produces the visible success of Christ&#8217;s kingdom in history. They also believe that toward the end of history there will be a final apostasy &#8211; a falling away from enjoying the blessed condition of success for the Great Commission. Satan, whose deceptive activity had previously been restricted (or &#8220;bound&#8221;), will be loosed again for a brief period in order to deceive the nations and make the them rebel against the Lord (Revelation 20:7.9) &#8211; at which point Christ will return from heaven in flaming fire and eternal judgment (vv. 9-15; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10).</p>

<p>Postmillennialists believe, then, in the glorious, personal return of Jesus Christ at the end of history to raise the dead, judge the world, consummate the kingdom, and bring in the eternal state of the new creation (Revelation 20-22).</p>

<p><strong>Examination</strong></p>

<p><strong>Question:</strong> But how can postmillennialists believe that there is going to be a final apostasy, given the powerful working of the kingdom during the period between the two advents? Obviously the Bible teaches that Christ will return to a rebellious world in need of judgment. So how can postmillennialism be true?</p>

<p><strong>Answer:</strong> Well, it may be difficult for the critic to understand why or how there will be falling away from the blessed conditions of a pervasively converted world, but that intellectual or emotional difficulty does not entail &#8211; much less substantiate &#8211; that postmillennialists actually deny such a final apostasy. (Many things in the Bible are believed, after all, even though not fully understood.)</p>

<p>In fact, only postmillennialism can make sense out of the claim that there will be a final apostasy. On the pessimistic outlook of amillennialism and premillennialism, there will be no visible or widespread advance for the church &#8211; no noteworthy success for the gospel in the world &#8211; from which to &#8220;fall&#8221; away. The wickedness of the end of human history is simply a continuation of the downward trend throughout history.</p>

<p>Postmillennialism does not hold that each and every person on earth will be saved at some time in the future. There will always be tares in the wheat field of Christ&#8217;s kingdom, right up until the time of the harvest &#8211; the final judgment (Matthew 13:24-30, 36-43). So Charles Hodge wrote that it should not be inferred from the Biblical promise of widespread Gentile and Jewish conversion that &#8220;either all the heathen or all the Jews are to become true Christians. In many cases the conversion may be merely nominal. There will probably enough remain unchanged in heart to be the germ of that persecuting power which shall bring about those days of tribulation which the Bible seems to teach are to immediately precede the coming of the Lord&#8221; (Systematic Theology, vol. 3. p.812).</p>

<p><strong>Source:</strong> Objections to Postmillinnialism Answered <a href="http://www.cmfnow.com/articles/pt136.htm">Part 1</a> and <a href="http://www.cmfnow.com/articles/pt138.htm">Part 2</a></p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Pat</title>
		<link>http://www.dogberrypatch.com/archives/heaven-misplaced-christs-kingdom-on-earth-by-douglas-wilson/#comment-17268</link>
		<dc:creator>Pat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 19:32:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.dogberrypatch.com/archives/heaven-misplaced-christs-kingdom-on-earth-by-douglas-wilson/#comment-17268</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;While I&#039;m optimistic about the spread of the gospel, and the general improvement of the world as time goes on, I&#039;ve never heard a good explanation of Revelation 20:7-9 from a postmillennial perspective:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;&quot;When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God&#039;s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Doesn&#039;t scripture say Satan &lt;i&gt;will&lt;/i&gt; be released from his chains?  How do postmillennialists square this passage with the view that there will be nothing but peace and blessedness before Christ returns?  While I don&#039;t hold to the common view that there will be nothing but doom and gloom before Christ&#039;s return, I believe this passage forces us to accept the fact that there will be some sort of great apostacy of some kind at the end, in some shape or another.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Also on a side note, isn&#039;t the greatest story in the world &lt;i&gt;Jesus&lt;/i&gt; story?  I&#039;m pretty sure &quot;The Greatest Story Ever Told&quot; was about him, not us. ;-)&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I&#8217;m optimistic about the spread of the gospel, and the general improvement of the world as time goes on, I&#8217;ve never heard a good explanation of Revelation 20:7-9 from a postmillennial perspective:</p>

<p>&#8220;When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God&#8217;s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.&#8221;</p>

<p>Doesn&#8217;t scripture say Satan <i>will</i> be released from his chains?  How do postmillennialists square this passage with the view that there will be nothing but peace and blessedness before Christ returns?  While I don&#8217;t hold to the common view that there will be nothing but doom and gloom before Christ&#8217;s return, I believe this passage forces us to accept the fact that there will be some sort of great apostacy of some kind at the end, in some shape or another.</p>

<p>Also on a side note, isn&#8217;t the greatest story in the world <i>Jesus</i> story?  I&#8217;m pretty sure &#8220;The Greatest Story Ever Told&#8221; was about him, not us. ;-)</p>]]></content:encoded>
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